David Mech speaks: So called "Alpha" wolves

[Dark-Hyena]

Dr. L. David Mech talks about the terms "alpha" and "beta" wolves and why they are no longer scientifically accurate.

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU

[Sharona]

Dr. L. David Mech talks about the terms "alpha" and "beta" wolves and why they are no longer scientifically accurate.

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU

Dr Mech is great! Scientifically accurate or not, I can't see that what you call them will make a difference anyway? The Wolves don't care

Sharona

[adriannahowl]

I highly doubt that it will just stop people from calling the leaders alpha...It will continue on.

[AgentAragorn]

huh interesting, yea technically its kinda weird...I mean alpha is usually used as a aggressive dominant figure...Thats why so many people get confused when raising thier dogs. They read that they have to be the "alpha" so many humans think they have to be aggressive and use physical force to train the dog... but yea its just the matter of words not meaning what they used to mean...evolution of vocabulary is quite interesting..

but like Sharona said, the wolf don't care xP

[GTX]

Surprisingly enough this post caught my attention for some reason...

I'm not sure why Alpha would not be a correct term scientifically. In a dominance hierarchy, a "leader", shall we say, can be determined by age, gender, body size, intelligence, and/or aggressiveness, but not all factors have to be taken in to consideration.

"Alpha", as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary, is "Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one's sex." "Dominant", by the same source, is "Exercising the most influence or control." It doesn't say anything about having to be aggressive.

I'm not sure how much “scientificâ€

[Sharona]

Very well put GTX
I agree completely.....

Sharona

[Dark-Hyena]

I'm not trying to downplay what was said, I'm just confused as to why it's being labeled as "Scientifically Incorrect" based on his explanation.

Because Alpha implies that the wolf earned it's position by clawing it's way to the top, when in fact it seems all that's required is to mate with the closest female before anyone else does.

[Rinith]

I think I posted an atical about this a few weeks ago...


http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_mech_d ... status.htm

[Sharona]

I'm not trying to downplay what was said, I'm just confused as to why it's being labeled as "Scientifically Incorrect" based on his explanation.

Because Alpha implies that the wolf earned it's position by clawing it's way to the top, when in fact it seems all that's required is to mate with the closest female before anyone else does.

How is anyone to know exactly "How" the Alpha Wolves gained their status?
Unless of course your Dave Mech, or various Wolf Biologist who spend countless hours in the wild viewing Wolves?

If you ask me. This video is just appeasement to the Anti-Wolfer's.
Bravo to Mech, he's one smart Man.... He placed his label's 20 or more years ago & now in the delisting environment, has to lose the "Alpha " status from Wolves to make them less threatening

I for one know that simply *breeding* Ain't gonna cut it!
You are going to have to "Make" your place to be Top "Dog"

The facts are, no matter what "Term's" we as Human's use to describe Wolf Pack Hierarchy, It ain't no picnic & conflict's occur between competing Wolves on a daily basis........
Not just who got to 3rd base first. That's ridiculous

My opinion.....

Sharona

[Sharona]

I think I posted an atical about this a few weeks ago...


http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_mech_d ... status.htm

I don't see a post from you on this issue?....

Sharona

[AgentAragorn]

[quote="GTX"]Surprisingly enough this post caught my attention for some reason...

I'm not sure why Alpha would not be a correct term scientifically. In a dominance hierarchy, a "leader", shall we say, can be determined by age, gender, body size, intelligence, and/or aggressiveness, but not all factors have to be taken in to consideration.

"Alpha", as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary, is "Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one's rubber duckies." "Dominant", by the same source, is "Exercising the most influence or control." It doesn't say anything about having to be aggressive.

I'm not sure how much “scientificâ€

[Dark-Hyena]

Unless of course your Dave Mech, or various Wolf Biologist who spend countless hours in the wild viewing Wolves?

I'm not. How fortunate then that the kind of people you describe allow themselves to be interviewed.

[Sharona]

Unless of course your Dave Mech, or various Wolf Biologist who spend countless hours in the wild viewing Wolves?

I'm not. How fortunate then that the kind of people you describe allow themselves to be interviewed.

Like I said.......IMO It's appeasement to the Anti -Wolfers. They are downright cult like here in America.

Sharona

[Kozmo]

Unless of course your Dave Mech, or various Wolf Biologist who spend countless hours in the wild viewing Wolves?

I'm not. How fortunate then that the kind of people you describe allow themselves to be interviewed.

Like I said.......IMO It's appeasement to the Anti -Wolfers. They are downright cult like here in America.

Sharona

You said it, Shar!

Though, I really don't get how what humans call their leader, be it alpha or anything else, has anything to do with how the wolves see themselves? Or how that was somehow 'scientifically inaccurate' (though I do love Dr. Mech and his know-how, it somehow makes no sense to me).

[SHvar]

A definition as it applies to apples or oranges, or to neither.
The idea being that a low ranking wolf, or free roaming male is not going to walk into the pack, grab a female, and mate, then take over. Its udderly rediculous to think that anyone with common sense would believe it. Any male attempting to do so would be placing a threat to the alpha, the beta, and every wolf to the omega, they would be making an uncertain challenge to the future of the entire pack. The pack itself does not question the alpha, therefore the entire pack would rip the challenger to pieces right away (unless he could outrun all of them).
Like was said, its a play to appease the antiwolfers.
Regardless of what you call any position in the pack, its still a wolf pack that lives by the experience, knowledge, and attitude of its leader. Its wouldnt matter to a species if you changed its name every day, the animal or plant would go about doing what it has for millions of years before humans decided to name anything.